Question About Dawson's Christian

[Filksinger]

My kids, believing me to be an expert on anything found in a filksong,
recently asked me about the ghost stories referenced in "Dawson's
Christian".

The line, of course, is from the chorus:

" There are stories of the Dutchman, the Celeste and Barnham's Pride,
There are stories of the Horseman and the Lady at his side."

Now, I know the (Flying) Dutchman, the Celeste is presumably the Mary
Celeste, and presumably the "Horseman and the Lady" refers to "The
Highwayman", by Alfred Noyes. However, before they notice that I missed
it, and come back to discover there are Things Dad Doesn't Know About
Filk, what is "Barnham's Pride"?

[Joe Kesselman]

Rumor has it that the estimable Mr. Elms himself didn't know what some
of these referred to, and that he has admitted that he chose these
references for the sound of them rather than as specific references.

Filkers being filkers, though, people have been working to fill in the
gaps. Songs have been written specifically to address some (all?) of
these; some may have been done multiple times. They aren't all ghost
stories.

Gary McGath's responsible for one about Barnum's Pride, TTTO Dawson's
Christian.

I *think* Mark Mandel did one about the Dutchman (referencing master
trader Nicholas Van Rijn, not the Flying Dutchman), also TTTO Dawson's
Christian.

Duane Elms himself wrote a song about the Horseman and the Lady (which
is not _The_Highwayman_). I can't remember it well enough, darn it...
but I think it verges on ghost story.

I've been told at least one song exists for the Celeste, but I don't
remember hearing it.



The real answer to this question, of course, is that what the poet meant
is not necessarily what the singer, or the listener, understands it to
mean. The need for interpretation is part of what makes it art.

[Filksinger]

Joe Kesselman wrote:
<snip>

Post by Joe Kesselman
The real answer to this question, of course, is that what the poet meant
is not necessarily what the singer, or the listener, understands it to
mean. The need for interpretation is part of what makes it art.

Hmm. So, I tell them that "Barnham's Pride" was made up for the song,
and don't admit to being wrong about the others. I can make that work.:)

Seriously, my kids are highly intelligent, 12 and 14 respectively, and I
doubt sincerely that it would be a surprise to them that Dad doesn't
know everything, even in filk. But it's best to be safe.:)

[Lee Gold]

Post by Filksinger
Now, I know the (Flying) Dutchman, the Celeste is presumably the Mary
Celeste, and presumably the "Horseman and the Lady" refers to "The
Highwayman", by Alfred Noyes.

No, the Horseman and the Lady is quite another story,
that Duane also wrote up in a later song. As I recall
they rode through time and space to places that needed
a little help rebelling against tyranny.

Post by Filksinger
However, before they notice that I missed
it, and come back to discover there are Things Dad Doesn't Know About
Filk, what is "Barnham's Pride"?

Yet another false legend. Possibly an allusion to the
sign that said "This Way to the Egress" to get people
out of Barnum's exhibition.

--Lee

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Filksinger
My kids, believing me to be an expert on anything found in a filksong,
recently asked me about the ghost stories referenced in "Dawson's
Christian".
" There are stories of the Dutchman, the Celeste and Barnham's Pride,
There are stories of the Horseman and the Lady at his side."
Now, I know the (Flying) Dutchman, the Celeste is presumably the Mary
Celeste, and presumably the "Horseman and the Lady" refers to "The
Highwayman", by Alfred Noyes. However, before they notice that I missed
it, and come back to discover there are Things Dad Doesn't Know About
Filk, what is "Barnham's Pride"?

Elms made it up because it scanned properly. I think he later on
wrote a song about Barnham's Pride, though, but years after Dawson's
Christian.
--scott

[Dave Weingart]

Post by Filksinger
Now, I know the (Flying) Dutchman, the Celeste is presumably the Mary
Celeste, and presumably the "Horseman and the Lady" refers to "The
Highwayman", by Alfred Noyes. However, before they notice that I missed
it, and come back to discover there are Things Dad Doesn't Know About
Filk, what is "Barnham's Pride"?

The Horseman and the Lady was another ghost story song, actually.
Duane hadn't written it by the time he wrote Dawson's CHristian,
but did some year's later.

The same with Barnum's Pride, except Duane never wrote it.

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